Template talk:Ability details

I think we should get rid of the ability details column, and leave that to the notes under the template. 184.65.172.79 20:29, 4 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm not entirely sure if I understand you correctly, but if you mean that you think ability details should be moved to the "Strategy" section of each hero, I disagree. I think all information on ability behavior should be in the template in order to provide one single place for all objective information on the ability. The strategy section may list some ways to take advantage of each ability, but doesn't, and shouldn't in my mind, aim to provide in-depth information on ability mechanics. -- Ecen (talk) 20:48, 4 March 2017 (UTC)


 * That's not what I mean at all. I mean to place them under the expandable "details" section under each box. Currently, a bunch of miscellaneous information is placed in the "ability details" column that is really better suited for a bulleted list that the expandable details section provides. 184.65.172.79 23:51, 4 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Alright, so you mean that some of what is listed under "Stats" rather belong in the "Details" section? Perhaps so. I am hesitant to agree, but you might have an example of some hero's ability that this applies to especially? -- Ecen (talk) 00:15, 5 March 2017 (UTC)


 * No, that's still not it. I literally mean the column specified by the  parameter in this template should be removed entirely, leaving only three columns, and its information placed in the details section. Look at how the Dota 2 wiki lists notes beside the official descriptions and statistics: dota2.gamepedia.com/Ogre_Magi because it won't let me past this spam filter if I actually link.


 * For example, look at Symmetra. Currently, the Behavior column for her Energy Ball has this long paragraph:


 * The damage and size of the projectile depends on the amount of time and ammo spent on casting. The slow speed makes it easy to dodge normally. However, it can be useful against large groups or to defend narrow paths and chokepoints, especially if the enemy is distracted by the chaos of battle. It will also pass through enemies and barriers such as Reinhardt's, Zarya's, Winston's and Symmetra's.


 * This mixes strategical and factual information. There is also a bullet point in the expandable Details section stating:


 * After 2 seconds, the maximum charge level is held for up to 1 second before forcefully firing.


 * It would make more sense to combine these into a single bulleted list in the details section. So in the new table which I propose, there would be only three columns (picture, stats, official description), and a bulleted list in the details section that would read:


 * The damage and size of the projectile depends on the amount of time and ammo spent on casting.
 * After 2 seconds, the maximum charge level is held for up to 1 second before forcefully firing.
 * Passes through enemies and barriers such as Reinhardt's, Zarya's, Winston's and Symmetra's. However, it can be blocked by Mei's Ice Wall, and D.Va's Defense Matrix will delete it.


 * 184.65.172.79 01:15, 5 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I see your point then! I was confused because this template's "ability_details" field IS the field that whose contents will appear as the expandable details section (the template example didn't make this clear and I have updated it to reflect the visible result).


 * For Symmetra, I completely agree that much behavior text should be moved to the details section, or even to the strategy section. The "Behavior" section is really just meant to be a short description, similar to, but more clear and less ambiguous than the official one, but I do see how the naming of this section might give editors the wrong idea.


 * Possibly it might then be a good idea to phase out the Behavior section as you suggest. After reviewing a few heroes, I have found several abilities for which this section is either empty, or overfull. However, for others, such as Mercy, the Behavior section seem to provide a very good ability description that I don't think should be replaced. Rather, I think that all ability "Behavior" sections should if possible contain the same type of information as Mercy's do at the moment.


 * So, I would recommend to approach this not by changing the template, but on a per case basis, and move ability information on hero pages where it has been misplaced, such as Symmetra's, to either a point in the ability_details field (the expandable field of the template, as suggested), or into the corresponding strategy section. -- Ecen (talk) 01:53, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Redesign
I have been working on a rewrite / redesign of Template:Ability details and while it still has a way to go to be feature complete, I'm happy with the visuals so far and I'd like to put it here for feedback and suggestions.

(BIG NOTE: The input numbers were originally correct but I've been messing with it so much I'm sure some are incorrect. Ignore any incorrect input, these are just examples.) User:MomoRuns/Ability info sandbox examples

So far I am trying to never have text and data in the same parameter. Most attributes have a standard unit that can be added when it is displayed instead of when input. This probably only matters for input that we want to use in calculations or visualizations.


 * What is/isn't easy to understand?
 * What data should have a visual aid (e.g. Damage & Health showing health meters)?
 * What attributes are common enough to be a dedicated parameter vs input as a trait? (An ability can have up to (~)10 "trait"s, which are data points that have a custom name)
 * Should we define "buffs" and "debuffs"? (e.g. Nano Boost applies multiple effects to a target, should that be bundled into a "buff"?
 * Should "abilities" for deployables (B.O.B., turrets, etc.) be defined separate from the ability that spawns them?
 * Should "weapons" be separate from "abilities"? There are a few key differences (Reload vs cooldown, hack interactions, damage falloff(?))

I know that is a lot of questions, do not feel the need to chime in on all of them.

MomoRuns (talk) 16:29, 4 May 2020 (UTC)